if they had the power to indict it would be a different strategy. since i've been on the case i haven't been too impressed by them. much of the actual lawyering has been done by jay sekulow and his team of lawyers along with martin and jane raskin, a husband and wife team of defense lawyers brought in at the same time as giuliani." so shannon, we talked about this, bob mueller has his head down doing his job. he won't be affected by what rudy giuliani says here or in israel or anywhere else. but what's really happening with rudy giuliani is the softening of the ground for when this report comes out, president trump will be able to point to the things, untrue as they may be, that giuliani has said about the corruption of the investigation and discredit it. >> that's exactly right. when i and my colleague talked to current and former justice department officials about giuliani, there was a sense he wasn't much of a threat. they said we don't see him interfacing much with the