thing you need is meetings with russian oligarchs to come to light, in combination with large payments of money. so i think there is clearly a lot of his activity that has sparked investigators' interests. and this may be more of it. >> tom, one of the things waef's been talking about here the past few days is the president's use of certain language, whether it is witch hunt or repeating "no collusion," "no collusion," "no collusi collusion," or using the word "spy" when it wasn't a spy, it may in fact have been an informant. do you think the president's surrogates have been effective in muddying the waters surrounding the russia investigation? >> i think that they have done a good job in at least attempting to turn the tables a little bit here. when you start having the public discourse and people in the media talking about whether there is a need to investigate