them uncomfortable. i think the bush family is a lot like that for them. they see other people doing what they, in their heart of hearts know they ought to be doing, and i think out of that resentment comes this kind of really, not inexcusable because if the person apologized we could move on. but the incapacity to admit you made a mistake is a troubling thing. >> dan balls, one of the things that was mentioned also in jonathan swan's reporting out tonight is this idea that we learn more about what goes on behind the scenes in the trump white house through these leaks than we would in weeks, months, years of another administration. having covered many of these -- are you surprised by the degree of information that comes out of the white house and allows us to learn about things like what was said? >> not so much any more. i think at the beginning we were all surprised by how leaky this administration was, certainly this white house was. and part of the reason in the early stages as you well know was that you had real infighting, real factional