a proof point or significant development if you're trying to prove something criminal, some sort of conspiracy. >> i think this is really important, nicolle. so, if i wanted something from you, i would basically say, i'm doing you a huge favor and i'd make sure that i got the credit for it. and if you knew that, then later i'd come and say, now i want to collect and i'd ask you for something and you'd probably comply. that's exactly what happened here. the russian government came to trump tower. they said we're going to do you a huge favor. we're going to drop op-o on your opponent hillary clinton. what we want is relief from the sanctions, relief from the magnitsky act and we want to talk about policy. the trump campaign through a secret channel talked about sanction relief. collusion, we have this idea trump and putin were whispering to each other on a day-to-day basis. that's not what happened. nobody believes that's what happened. the president keeps using the word collusion. but that is not in fact what bob mueller is looking at. >> natasha, take us through -- we were talking earlier and i think richard painter who was the ethics officer in the bush white house. had a tweet out, described her as a michael cohen-like figure