and i think that's really critical. so there is some difference. i think there may be some difference. >> victor, it seems to me also that -- i guess i feel like maybe the cat's out of the bag on the nuclear issue. is it crazy to think they're not going to give up the nuclear weapons that they've completed the testing they need to do and essentially the window's closed on that? >> well, i think that's certainly the north korean preferred strategy. i mean, i think they would prefer not to give up all of their weapons, to be able to keep some, to negotiate down some of their capabilities but in return get normalization, a peace treaty, and recognition as a nuclear weapons state. i think they want to have their cake and eat it too. for 25 years the u.s. and the position of all the other powers has been if you want those things, peace treaty, normalization, you have to give up the weapons. and the north koreans thus far have talked about denuclearization of the korean peninsula, which is a nice phrase and it sounds good but it's a step much shorter than what they agreed to in 2005 and in 1992, which were much more