apparently, they're almost there. something that is sure to come up in this endeavor going forward is whether or not the president is going to sit down for an interview with bob mueller, mano y mano or even speak to mueller. and on that front, another trump attorney, ty cobb, told the daily beast in an interview that the interview with mueller is still on the table. quote, the cohen searches, while i have taken time away from discussions with with regard to an interview, certainly have not brought those discussions to a halt. they continue, end quote. joining us now is betsey woodruff, who wrote that piece for the daily beast and joining the table in ari melber's place, the reverend al sharpton. a great man, my friend, the host of "politics nation" here on msnbc. bill kristol and barbara mcquade are still with us. so, betsey, you were the first one to report on the news of the giuliani joining the legal team. just tell us what -- how did we get from rudy giuliani as part of team trump? >> we had to go through a whole