he slaughtered tens and thousands of people. he's incarcerated, in one prison alone, amnesty international said 13,000 men were tortured to death. he's killed children. so, the kind of -- we come awake when we hear chemical weapons. >> yes. >> and there's a kind of moral imperative to impose -- >> which is not wrong. >> which is not wrong and should be done but i think we should not forget that shouldn't be a red line drawn. you can't use poison gas but you can do everything else. you can commit every heinous war crime as long agency you don't use chemical weapons. we forgot what is happening to syria and the syrian population and the suffering they've undergone for seven years. why should we care, because to have a failed state is not in our political interest. >> right, and there are examples of that in syria, lebanon,