associate identified only as person a who the fbi believes to be a russian investigation operative. van zer zaun is one of the characters who looks more important as time goes by. barbara mcquaid, a former federal prosecutor and justice analyst, frank figliuzzi, an msnbc national security analyst and benjamin wittes editor-in-chief of the law fair blog and an msnbc analyst. frank, on the vander zune sentencing and i want to move to the manafort file. what do you interpret as the reason to hammer this guy? in the way that mueller did? >> so an even bigger story than the 30-day prison sentence which to most people would seem like small potatoes for lying to mueller's team is what van der zwaan lied about. that's the message that mueller