about about whattism. they want to point to other things, other directions to insulate themselves and they think hillary clinton can help them do that. there's a risk there, the a.p. just interviewed josh holly who ran a clinton a ad and he didn't want to talk about donald trump. i don't know how you have it both ways. >> jon meacham, can you give us any examples of where a defeated presidential candidate is a effective tool. >> republicans tried to run against jimmy carter as long as democrats tried to run against herbert hoover, but that never worked. >> right. >> ronald reagan won a landslide in 1980 and republicans got their heads knocked off in 1982. it doesn't work. >> right. and there are the old early morph ads of you're a teddy kennedy liberal and denimocrats