group. when they take our stuff, we go, get our group together, we go fight them and get our stuff back. >> pierre chatman was the first heartless felon who agreed to talk to me. >> the system call it a gang. it ain't no gang, though. it's a family for real. it's just people sticking up for each other, that's all. >> you can see part of what the draw was. here are kids in juvenile jails, probably without family support, probably without resources, and they're being offered this family-like situation, where you're going to be protected, part of something bigger, and pierre really embraced that. >> pierre chatman. pierre chatman is an orchestrator. he orchestrates. he calls the shots. pierre, as a whole, he's -- he's a nice guy but, you know, i wouldn't turn my back on him too much, though. >> gang investigator sam mclaren felt the same way about the rest