justice, you have to prove intent. that's a high bar. if you continue to look at the pattern, the statements and the tweets -- all the statements made by president trump's lawyers and everybody around him, it does add up to that building pattern of obstruction of justice which most people think is ultimately what could get the president in a lot of trouble here. >> great to talk to both of you. with the president ramping up his attacks on robert mueller and his team, a new piece in "the atlantic" is america on the verge of a constitutional crisis. ben wit says there's a better term and it's constitutional rot. >> senior fellow at the brooks kings institution and editor of "law fair." you talk about constitutional crisis. we're more familiar with what that may mean or might mean. help us with constitutional rot. what's that? >> constitutional crisis is an acute moment in which the constitutional order is tested,