to see in writing and see exactly what was said. and that's what i think people are going to be able to make their decision on. well, is this somebody that should be fired? is this splitting hairs? or what is this? obviously, look this doesn't -- timing-wise, this doesn't look great for the justice department because of all of the taunting that the president has done on andy mccabe. it's going to contribute to the perception, if he gets fired that jeff sessions is doing the president's bidding. >> there is that to consider. we're much obliged to our panel tonight, from "the new york times," matt apuzo, from the post graduate preek bharara school of law, jennifer rogers and mimi roke character formerly of the southern district of new york. coming up, the white house goes against the russians but not the president per se. the brits have been attacked which should mean we've all been attacked. a reality check when we come back.