helping and be part of what they're doing in their criminal acts to be part of a conspiracy? where is the line in terms of just bad behavior versus getting indicted? >> one of the reasons i've used the term collusion rather than a conspiracy to violate sections such and such and such and such, the bar shouldn't be set so low as to what was a crime. it ought to be if the trump campaign was aware of what the russians were doing, highway preview of what the russians were doing, urged the russians to do it -- you had donald trump speaking publicly, hey, russians, if you're listening, hack hillary clinton's e-mails. you'll be richly rewarded. if that message had gotten to the candidate and the candidate is egging them on, whether it's a crime or not, it ought to be condemned by the whole country, democrats and rks alike. what does it take to prove a case or indict a case? there has to be a meeting of the minds between the campaign and the russians. okay, we're going to do this. there has to be some overt act. not necessarily an overt act on