mueller to be able to get this cooperation, leniency. i think to the extent there is questions about his legal team him he is probably angry at legal advice he's gotten in the past. he doesn't know why he is being name, including in the same things paul manafort is included with. especially since part he was helping. >> through all of the stuff about the malfeasance with banks and lending institutions, it's all gates helping manafort commit fraudulent acts. >> exactly. this is a position i don't think he is expected to be in. but it's not clear that changing lawyers a fourth time is going to get him out of this. >> julie ainsley, justice reporter, that is a bizarre sci plot. we don't know how it will end. >> thank you, we'll follow it. >> much more to come. a very news night and a really big interview coming up on the show. stay with us.