babbling fool is going to get him off the hook. for one thing he told us, he got a 30 out of 30 on the mental exam. he's in tiptop shape, he's got a great brain. so the president is not going to allow himself to get off on the crazy defense. i think this is an embarrassment of riches for the special counsel. there are so many pieces of intent. he wants to cripple the investigation because he's afraid of what they would find. >> ron klain, using the espy case, i believe that was about records instead of testimony and when you're trying to use executive privilege and you're saying you can only have this if you have no other way of getting it, that's something applying to records as opposed to actual testimony. >> that's true, lawrence, and further, in that case on paige