expectations of mueller and his team? >> then he won't get the deal. typically a cooperation agreement or flipping as it's called, doesn't happen until you have had a series of what are called proffer meetings, an agreement to sit down and see what the government has to say. the government is looking for two things. they want to know what information of value does this witness potentially have and is this witness credible. will he stand cross-examination interest be able to help you prove a case? a potential cooperator has to get thumbs up on both scores. that's the purpose of the proffer meeting. a good lawyer would not bring in his client unless that lawyer had himself put his client through the wringer and had a pretty high degree of confidence that the client was going to pass on both scores. >> so if flynn agrees to cooperate, is that some sort of a sign that he does not feel a possible presidential pardon would be able to protect him?