it's really mystifying because, you know, this is a pretty dramatic thing. you are proposing a meeting between the candidate and head of an adversary nation. and the story is jeff sessions nixed it and said we're going to move on. but to me, the real question is who within the trump campaign knew that george papadopoulos had been offered dirt on hillary clinton and thousands of e-mails. did sam clovis, the campaign supervisor know who is not going forward as agriculture chief scientist? did jeff sessions, the head of this national security committee know? that's what presumably members of congress are going to ask him. >> ken, stay with us for the rest of the conversation. let me bring in mike lotter, mike pence's press secretary, a post he left in september, just in time. what do you know or are hearing from your former colleagues about the ripple effect that ken dilanian described upon learning that papadopoulos plead guilty to lying to the fbi this summer