obama wouldn't have said that about bush, right? >> right. graciousness costs you nothing. >> nothing. going back and litigating with what your predecessor might have done or not done? i don't think there's anything to litigate in this case, just to be clear. shows something so deep about trump. there's no sense that he is the president in a string of presidents who have to uphold certain standards and certain, you know, practices of decorum and it's not all about him, personally. that's -- as you say, that's the thing that was most strike bing about that answer. >> i get by comparison, we are institutionalists and you made an interesting point there about institutional history. where is the person in the white house? is it the gold-star father, general kelly, who is his day-to-day chief of staff, to tell him, here's what previous presidents did? >> well, john kelly was leon -- bob gates' and leon panetta's military aide in the pentagon as jeremy bash. he has experience in this, having lost a son in afghanistan, and mattis has