up. all right. >> so my advice is simple. don't stop. the temptation to try something else or to give up or to quit, you know, people don't realize when you start a company you're embarrassed, u mihumiliated on, stepped on, abused. if you keep going, failure doesn't really happen. just experiences and learning. and that is the main thing is to just keep doing it. >> all right. so that is great as you're looking back. failure never happened. it was just experience. when you're in the middle of it, it's terrible. everything is crashing down around you -- >> that's the thing. see, that's what separates people who are successful and people who aren't. a normal person would never go through what an entrepreneur has to go through. you have to not be normal. you have to put up with things that the average person would not in order to succeed. >> so i want to know how both of you do that don't stop? right? it is common to want to give up when things get tough. what do you do?