for "the new york times." two veterans of our business and trade. andrea, about every other day thaurs a panel discussion on c-span about the era of the national security adviser and the white house and the friction it has sometimes caused between presidents and their secretaries of state. but in your time and in your knowledge has there ever been a briefing where the spokes woman for the secretary of state denied that he called the president a moron? >> i mean, it's -- no. the short answer is no. and we should point out that heather new wart says that that did not happen. we have sources, our reporters who worked on this, and it was a large team, had sources who say it did happen and who were in the room and misnew wart was not in the am radio, but she says she discussed this with the secretary. he very pointedel did not deny it himself, but he later told her that it did not happen. >> elizabeth, i don't know if you have any eagle scouts in your life or -- >> i do, actually. >> oh, that's fantastic.