skeptical, not only of the intel community but especially of the state department. if you talk to donald trump or anybody close to donald trump after the election, their entire goal was cutting the knees out from underneath a state department that they believed would do nothing but try to undercut their own agenda. >> you know, i think, joe, that they have this deep suspicion of the permanent government, the deep state, as people on the right sometimes say. the funny thing is that tillerson had that, too. you couldn't ask for a secretary of state who kept the bureaucracy at more distance than rex tillerson has done. but i do think that that suspicion is present. one interesting thing, if you look at mike pompeo, he has gotten the trust of most of his workforce in the way that