democratses have to be careful this doesn't bn become a litmus test or sort of a, are you progressive enough test? it's not. this is a debate over how to kov are mother people with health care. all democrats stand for that. >> chris, you've been on a few times. i remember one time a coffee can test. in that the one thing you said is, obamacare got rid of the coffee cans. meaning people had an ability to get health care. not small towns everybody chipping in to help a neighbor with health care. medicare for all, the immediate response in middle america, yes, and then what? >> i don't know if necessarily it's going to be a yes for everyone, but it is, you know -- you have a situation right now where if you're on the individual plan, you have one option in most places. and you're seeing a real serious premium increase. so for a lot of people like farmers or small business people, employers for small businesses, it is an option. i kind of looked at this