e-mail would have existed. that seemed implausible and cartoonish and conspiratorial against all imaginings. and it came out and that altered my priors about what i'm expecting to come out. >> but you add to that e-mail exactly the explanation that donald trump wrote for his son, which is so antiseptic -- >> they lied. >> they lied and they put in a statement by kushner, which also dovetails with junior's statement. it's like classic investigation. you get two guys who come in, they give you a totally nonsense story. and then you've got the opportunity to chip away at it. >> right. >> i think there is this psychological issue, though, for a lot of regular americans, and those of us political junkies who are watching this and watching these headlines and being surprised, oh, my god, did we get him? is that it? that's it? right? we now know this happened? which is, is there going to be a point where anybody can say, okay, now a mechanism is going to kick into place. and that's a question, with i don't know, did people ask that throughout watergate and