ideologue, what in him wanted to hand over that part of okay, you tell me how we should do this, and what part of bannon wanted to hitch his wagon to donald trump? >> i don't think it was bannon telling trump what to do. i think bannon flattered trump. he essentially recognized that trump has these populist ip pulls and told him you're not a clown, not a punch line. i have this whole intellectual infrastructure. he used tell trump he was part of a global uprising and it fed trump's ego and you can see that in the book how trump kind of fed on bannon's input the same way a boxer feeds on the pep talk he gets from the cornerman in the ring. that worked to brilliant effect in the campaign. hasn't worked nearly as well in the white house. bannon understood how to connect with trump. >> there's a portion of this book where you touch on donald trump's ratings on the "apprentice" as measured about his popularity with certain