set up the first back channel with soviet ambassador debreenan. that fellow's name was-ry kissinger. and it was not known to the state department. i note that kissinger sat down with donald trump, i don't know if jared kushner was in the meeting in november and subsequently. who knows where the idea of a back channel came from. there is a lot of precedent. >> back channel is a diplomatic term of effort. that was efforts in the atomic age, especially in the cold war. and rick stengel sitting here at the table a veteran of the state department, aimed at a better world, a safer world, going around the bureaucracy and channels of communications that existed that could get muddled. so that is something quite different, until we learn evidence that this was an effort toward a better and safer world for all, rick stengel, bear me out. >> well, yes, i think there's