and no, i think the weaknesses that tony schwartz talks about are exactly right. trump is 77 some odd years old he's not going to change after all this time. unfortunately for him, i actually agree with ron win, i'm shocked, twice in one program. but i think the -- >> we call that progress, howard. >> well, i'm waiting for you to agree with me on health care. although it may be a long wait. >> we don't have enough time for that on the show. >> we don't have enough time -- >> don't hold your breath. >> but howard, you have the last word. >> the bottom line -- i'm sorry, which one of us gets the last word? >> howard dean. howard. >> okay. i think the bottom line is ron is correct about the special prosecutor because this gets it out of the realm of innuendo. there will be a lot of leaks though. and trump is not likely to react well to those. i think mueller is a risk for trump. it is true that this is a -- it's possible to get this off the front page. but it's also more likely that more leaks happen, more bad