diplomats -- american diplomats go around the world one of the things we talk about are this rule of law, anti-corruption. anti-nepotism. these are countries where -- i mean, the president of azerbaijan named his wife as vice president recently. we are always arguing against this. our system is a system of meritocracy, experts, as a contrast to what they're doing. one of the things that this trump in-house family gathering does is undermine the arguments we make for democracies for countries to evolve. that's something i see as a problem going forward in all kinds of ways. >> mike, what do you think is the policy cost of that? if you say the family's rising power is not the wayo deal with bannon's failures? >> i think there are a lot of poteial policy costs to that. what kind of relationships does jared kushner have on capitol hill, for example? what kind of respect does he engender on capitol hill among the staffs of paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. i don't know the answer to that