those out, insurance will be pretty cheap. i would personally insure people if i could guarantee not to pay for any of those things on the list. so it's just -- i'm a market guy, joy, you know that, i'm a capitalist, i'm a business reporter, i love capitalism, this makes no sense. >> and wendall, what would insurance companies do if you completely deregulated the market. would they ever insure somebody's child, let's say, who had spina bifida? would they insure an older person or sick person willingly? >> no, and that's a fallacy, this free market thing. theyon't want to insure people who ed access to care. this i went the healthiest and the youngest so, no, they would not. it's just absurd. the whole idea of the free market working is just a fallacy, as ali said. and even the notion of competition is a fallacy as well, too. the more insurance companies you have, the less market power any one of them has to negotiate with doctors and hospitals.