those out, insurance will be pretty cheap. i would personally insure people if i could guarantee not to pay forny of those things on the list. so is just -- i'm a market guy, joy, you know that, i'm a capitalist, i'm a business reporter, i love capitalism, this makes no sense. >> and wendall, what would insurance companies do if you completely deregulated the market. ? would they ever insure somebody's child, let's say, who had spina bifida? would they insure an older person or sick person willingly? >> no, and that's a fallacy, this free market thing. they don't want to insure people who need access to care. this i went the healthiest and the youngest so, no, they would not. it's just absurd. the whole idea of the free market working is just a fallacy, as ali said. and even the notion of competition is a fallacy as well, too. the more insurance companies you have, the less market power any one of them has to negotiate