betsy devos struggled with the questions should we measure growth or proficiency. >> if i'm understanding your question correctly, around proficiency, i would also correlate it to competency and mastery. >> that's growth. that's not proficiency. >> the proficiency is if they've reached a like third grade level for reading, et cetera. is that -- >> i'm talking about the debate between proficiency and growth. >> senator franken famously never did get an answer to that question and tomorrow we'll find out if that matters to 50 republican senators. but on saturday night, another classic indicate mckinnon impersonation was born. >> betsy! [cheers and applause ] >> hello. and thank you. yes, yes, the man? >> yeah. hi. i don't think we ever got a clear answer on this. how do you value growth versus proficiency in measuring progress in students.