>> seems like it's gone up. >> close to $20 trillion now. look at proposals by incoming trump administration, "i would be shocked if we weren't over $30 trillion if we're on this trajectory over the next four or five years. how dangerous is this for not only the we will being of the united states and american home but also our stranding abroad? >> i think the question isn't so much the overall level of debt, numbers like $20 trillion and $30 trillion seems scary, question of debt to gdp. u.s. economy has also grown a fair amount during this time. debt to gdp ratios are now approaching 100%. the question is whether this is the right time to engage in even more fiscal stimulus. now, the argument is always if you do that, and if you generate high rates of economic growth and return, then it pays for itself, at least means not as much of an issue. >> when does that happen? we republicans, i'm talking about myself, we said it with