feeling, i don't know when -- i remember watching her rise to power. i remember watching her at the regency hotel back in '91 when she and bill clinton ferris presented themselves in new york. it was a freebie, breakfast, you could go. it wasn't about money or anything. i went there and i thought, hmm, she gave the first speech, bill gave the second. they were running as a duo, remember, two for the price of one. she had an ambition somewhere in her head that she was going to rise up, maybe not to the presidency, maybe all of this just came to her, but she was never somebody who went out there and loved to shake hands, you know, she wasn't bill. bill was easy to take, because he had no moral pretensions. he liked hamburgers and women, and that was it. >> oh, my goodness! >> sorry. sorry! >> reporter: he's gregarious. he loved being the last guy to leave the party. >> yes. >> but i actually feel sorry for her. she had trouble connecting. and where this was most pronounced is when the president would be on stage with her.