>> are we surprised by this? we've been talking about the fact that joe biden, vice president biden wanted to, wants to, will forever run for president of the united states. it is something i think is an inherent part of his character and nature. and i don't say that in a disparaging way, it's just something that we all know about him. so i am not surprised to hear him say oh, yeah, i'm going to run in 2020. >> jonathan, you had a chance to talk to him about this recently. >> yeah, i did. i went to south america with him this past week. look, he wants to be vital. and he's vital. he's only four years older than donald trump. and in a hell of a lot better shape than trump is. so his feeling is, he's not going to walk away and go gently into that good night of vice presidential retirement. he's going to stay super active and whether he runs for president or not, and clearly he hasn't made any decision about whether or not to do it, you're a lot more part of the process