people, certain group of white people sort of voting like an interest group, right, like a minority and in these overwhelming numbers. there's another part that the identity doesn't have to be that and the degree to which those two things are connected is the kind of deep stuff here. the one thing that he said that i think is really important, what is driving the voters and what were the voters' countenance. it's that latter place, right, like the drives of those voters these folks those are complicated but what we do know is that it was not a deal breaker for them that he did these things. and that is for a lot of people the hard part to swallow. >> can i just add something here? we're having this conversation about populism, talking about a punitive billionaire who manufactures his clothing line abroad. >> whose phrase is you're fired. >> this is the big con, the long con game that people have had here. it does raise the sort of fundamental questions about