>> right. >> like he won a major party's nomination. what are you going to do, say, no debates or he's not invited? the institutions exist for the slot of the person who wins the major party. >> and he got the slot. >> he got the slot. >> as someone who -- i'm happy that she's there. i'm happy that the church has opened up that little bit. so if i say that, she can sit there even though she's pro choice, then i can't really say he shouldn't have been invited. >> yeah, that's right. but that's exactly the line that we're all dealing with, charlie, i think, in this campaign. to me it's clear that there's something distinct, novel and unique about what trump represents but that's sort of in the eye of the beholder. >> that's the mistake that the republicans made. i think it's the mistake the media has made. it's a mistake the establishment has made, which is try to wishful thinking to make donald trump normal. i'm really fascinated to see what cardinal dolan does. he's a decent human being but