becoming less racially polarized as a country. i think there's going to be a lot of rethinking among conventional democrats about quite frankly we're not going to necessarily do better among whites than -- >> so hillary won't get that appalachian white woman, southwestern pennsylvania? she won't get her? >> she won't do remarkably better among white women. if you look at sort of how the polarization is, it's hard to make an argument she's going to do markedly better among white voters. >> i think some of those people identify with the old hillary from arkansas. maybe they identify now. i don't know. >> in 2011 i did a profile of paul ryan for "time" magazine and i went with him to the racine county fair where he competed in a goat milking contest which he does every year at the racine county fair. he always loses to the milk maids and the beauty queens who are very good at milking goats. but he's really competitive. and so every year he really works on his strategy and how to best milk a goat. and i was chatting with him on friday and he was really excited to tell me that this year he actually won his goat-milking contest. >> is it that goat smell on him