dismembering people, torturing people. they're depraved human beings. >> exactly. exactly right. spot on. they're losers. they couldn't even escape, really. they sent -- i do think they plotted for months in there to get the saws, to get the bits, you know, to get the drill bits from joyce and to get on the catwalk, to scheme, the hot plate, all these little things. that took them many months. but it consumed most of their planning, i think. and short of that, it was get the car and, you know, hey. it's all going to be great. you know, we'll be in the caribbean. well, you know, not really. >> not really. >> they didn't really think it that deep. i don't know if that's a movie plot. it's kind of a loser plot, really. >> yeah. zeke, what are your thoughts on this? >> well, you know, if you look at the totality of the circumstances from when these men were originally arrested before they were put in prison, all the way through their history in prison, now you have an escape and a mastermind escape through a major security