course, you may get confused on whether you're talking about the same piece of cement the question is are you calling it 13 or 31. but that's right. that's why i've been saying all along, if it was 13 down at the end of the runway right on that berm before you would go back over into the water. >> and msnbc's tramaine lee joins me by phone. what can you see from your vantage point? >> i'm at delta terminal d at laguardia inside there's not much chaos outside. as far as i can see, there are ambulances and fire response vehicles and emergency response vehicles but i don't see many people, about 10 or 15 minutes ago i saw emergency personnel wheeling in stretchers into the airplane but i haven't seen anyone come out as of yesterday. >> and tom costello as you can