>> people do evolve. let's not be cynical. >> i'm cynical for a living. >> you've been living out there carrying the banner for equality 30, 40 years ago? >> this is the thing. you know, somebody -- he has -- >> hillary clinton went from a goldwater conservative to being an anti-war liberal under eugene mccarthy. guess who else did that? me. people do change their politics as they grow up. >> sure, you can change your policies as you grow up, but i'm getting shades of mitt romney here. >> right. >> you're for something then you're against something because you need it politically. >> too quick? >> yeah. and then you're going to change it back because suddenly you realize the party needs latino voters, need to make the party open and welcoming to hispanic voters? >> saying he's against a path to citizenship, or wanted other components to be part of it? if he wants the other components, he's right in the american mainstream. if he wants it all, path to citizenship, stop the illegal hiring of people, that make sense. that's my position. i'm not sure he's excluded the path to citizenship, has he? >> i'm not sure. that's part of the problem.