this. >> but we learned from the report that there were cia employees who were physically ill as they watched this stuff happen. other officials who wrote in memos saying, i want nothing to do with this. i'm getting away from this, this is wrong. get me out of here. >> so it's not that, you know, there was, everybody was gung ho, let's go torture some folks. there were people that realized that, you know, this was more than skirting the line. this was way over the line. >> they also had previous experience that suggested to them as the report eventually found that this was not going to be effective in getting good information. >> how about the fact that he started making up stories like al qaeda was recruiting african-american muslims in montana to do -- to attack the united states. >> right. right. right. where to begin. and so do you believe that? got some great information out of torture today. >> they knew it wasn't going to be effective.