don't know this. who is to blame for that? >> i think we all are. you said something in your intro that this was a sudden problem. from 2012, every single year, the number of kids apprehended at the border has more than doubled. if i'm rick perry or if i'm an organization on the border, i am very frustrated because we've been warning about this problem for many years. i question the governor's motives, but i don't question -- >> it emphasizes the system being broken for advocates approaching reform. this has been a constant problem. there's plenty of money down there and it's not fixing the crisis. maybe you have to look at the overarching system. >> or being used to prevent it. border security versus criminal organizations trafficking people to our border. >> one thing that's been very absent so far in this discussion is our role in creating this crisis in the sense that the guns that these traffickers have