committed from a sort of moral perspective, from a democratic perspective, to not having separate but equal schools, right? or separate but unequal as the brown holding makes very clear. but do we know from the research, are there tangible benefits that occur to the kids that are attending segregated schools as opposed to desegregated ones? >> absolutely. there's 40 years of research that show that low income and disadvantaged kids do much better in integrated middle class schools. poor kids in high poverty schools on average are two years behind kids in middle class schools. >> wow. >> meanwhile, more advantage kids, middle class kids, are not harmed by being exposed to poor kids nor are they harmed -- in fact, they benefit. there's research that shows they benefit from being exposed to kids of all colors. diversity, well resourced integrates schools work for all kids. >> this is a really important point. the way the busing debate got framed -- there's a zero set of