>> there's doubt he cannot get a fair trial. whistleblowers were excluded from all -- >> this is important. national security basically has a carve-out that makes whistleblowing almost impossible. >> that's true. in 1978 when they passed the federal whistleblowing law, they carved out national security. it was the biggest mistake because as other institutions and agencies moved forward and developed mechanisms for people to expose wrong doing, national security remained in the old world. so snowden has no rights under those laws. the laws he's been charged with, this is what he's been charged with but if you read the espionage act, they could clearly charge him with other parts of it at any time, which carries the death penalty. using the espionage act against whistleblowers is in our view just so over the top and such a reflection of hostility that it