our constitution for the separation of church and state. >> because he's a good unitarian universalist? >> indeed. >> i love the idea that it is the ghost of jefferson who also had his own issues. >> slave holder and declarer of independence. >> that is the types of complexity they represent. everybody stay with me. we have more pope when we come back. coming up next, we'll go beyond the symbolism and the surprising areas where they agree and disagree. and a real game changer at northwest university. the ruling that could change everything about sports and university. there is more nerdland at the top of the hour. ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage.