>> he ran the first time in '87. >> first time was completely humiliated. >> and ran again in 2008. >> his past is so fraught, we're talking about between the time he gets elect at 29 for the senate and gets sworn in, his wife and young daughter are killed. this is a guy by necessity has to knock off the rear view mirrors on any cars he drives. he's got to look forward. he has to keep impelled forward or he really loses his momentum. that's really the arc of this guy's story. >> what i find, howard, he is unusual. he is this high. he is not like dick cheney who had all the health problems and said he couldn't run for president, right? guy isn't term limited politically. >> no, he is not. and i too have spent a lot of time with him over the years. i covered that '88 campaign. and what happened in iowa was is he would go to a campaign event, and he would never stop talk. and he had them for the first 15 minutes of the event. i remember down by the river in davenport, iowa, beautiful night.