between the husband and the wife. >> well, and frankly, a lot of his defenders at the time, susan, were trying to paint her as lady macbeth, that she was the driver, and you read the indictment, they were co-consprinters. >> yeah, i thought politico did a nice job of talking about the false narratives of bob mcdonnell. >> and one of the things that's ironic, he was in many ways a pretty good governor. he got the big transportation bill through. he was good with conservative republicans and -- >> exactly. he seemed, you know, he mismanaged, i think, the ultrasound thing, he let his party get out of control there, but then stopped it -- i mean, it is -- it is a classic case where the electorate was happy with how he was governing. >> his numbers are still pretty good, even after story after story about the most vivid kind of sort of access buying from johnny williams, and through the