johnny williams type person. you know, virginia, for so many years, has thought so much of itself, it didn't need the kind of tight ethics laws -- >> people wouldn't do that to virginia. >> it's not the virginia way. >> but that's not the point. virginia doesn't have a history of the kind of scandals and -- >> and it's not floored in public corruption that is alleged in the mcdonnells' indictment, until now. so i think that is going to change the climate down in richmond. >> susan, what struck me about the indictment, as well, was this was a caricature of how hollywood would assume a donor buys a politician. >> yeah. >> it's our friends in hollywood were writing the script, oh, what is a generic way of how politicians are corrupt? >> it's too over the top. >> that's what's amazing by this indictment. oh, my god, in this era, you thought you would get away with it? >> what's amazing, is governor mcdonnell isn't denying any of it, right, because there's a digital trail through the e-mails, and his only argument