particularly going into the midterms, this is going to change millions and millions of lives, right? so the number we're talking about here is 9 million people whose lives have changed and democrats need to go on offense and really focus on the difference in the life, the quality of life for those folks. because it will be very significant. >> well, let's talk about the land where there's radical governors. one of them is in wisconsin. is it safe territory to go on the offensive for obamacare in the middle of the country, ruth? what about it? >> oh, absolutely. you know, our -- if you want to talk about a health care mess, look at wisconsin. because wisconsin not only refused to take the medicaid expansion but curtailed its own program called badger care so that now a lot of working poor people who used to have health care in this state are getting kicked off. and what the governor has said to them, as well, you can get health care because of the affordable care act. well, if they have the medicaid expansion, it would be free. the legislature have argued,