volumeing up data of americans, because maybe some day it might be useful. >> the other point i want to raise, the other thing to think about is the role of the guy who sort of started all this, this year, edward snowden. edward snowden is in russia right now. he claims to be in possession of a lot more documents, a lot more materials than he has released. i think whatever you think of edward snowden. when you think of how he has gone about doing this. it is clearly, this commission wouldn't have been empanelled if it hasn't been for the revelations that he brought out there, back in the spring. i wonder how do you think, norm, when you look at edward snowden's role in all this. the idea of should the government sut some kind of deal to get him back here. maybe to get possession if they could, how should we be thinking of edward snowden right now? >> it's so hard, no question he's had a profound effect now. much will be a positive effect. on the other handsh i don't think he's a good guy. i think the entire process the