to try to keep detroit, and successfully kept detroit investment grade rated. that was 23 years ago. they have severe structural problems. to enter a transaction like that, it's not an interest rate bet, it was a bet on staying solvent. >> and they lost that bet. quickly, is there a way for detroit to pay the promise to it's retirees and get out of this? >> well, yes there is. so there are several aspects to it. you have to be creative about how you drive down their catch throw deficit. but the way to do it, and tragically the bankruptcy court can't order the state to kick in a little money, to put back the $47 million they paid, that's the way to do it.